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Topic: teachers benefits (Read 1053 times) |
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sweetleur
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teachers benefits
« Thread started on: Mar 22nd, 2004, 08:43am » |
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I saw where a school district in Beaver county has accepted a contract where the teachers pay some medical cots in the third year of the contract. Teachers statewide are furious saying that they should pay nothing for health insurance. They say they are accepting lower wages for jobs requiring a degree than others professions are.So the cost of all those benefits are what make our school taxes higher. Do you think the teachers unions are right and they should not pay any medical costs?
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jenny
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Re: teachers benefits
« Reply #1 on: Mar 22nd, 2004, 1:24pm » |
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Sadly in this day & age with the costs of medical insurance, anyone is out of line to think they shouldn't have to pay something. I know we have a client at our wic office whose husband works for a small company and in order to get health insurance they have to pay upwards of $200 per week. And they can't qualify for state medical assistance, b/c in this state if you're employer offers insurance you 'have' to take it. The whole insurance thing is one big racket. Those teachers should just be happy that they are offered insurance at a decent rate. Not everyone is so lucky.
Jenny
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Jimmers
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Sticky situation
« Reply #2 on: Mar 22nd, 2004, 6:13pm » |
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The fact that tax payer dollars are involved makes it a different situation, in my eyes, than a private company.
Maybe teacher's should have to pay a percentage based on the AVERAGE PERCENTAGE that other households in the school district pay ?? If the average taxpayer has to pay $100 per month or $200 per month for health benefits, then any PUBLIC EMPLOYEE in the same area should pay that as well. I am sure they make more than the AVERAGE citizen already. (anyone got the $$$ figures for this ??)
Not all the OTHER PROFESSIONALS with degrees have 2 months off every summer, so the teacher's union needs to be careful of what they demand based on comparisons to other professions.
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Just my 2 cents ..
Jimmers
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snackdaddy
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Re: teachers benefits
« Reply #3 on: Mar 22nd, 2004, 7:58pm » |
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How very true that most other professionals with degrees do not get two months off every summer. Congress people only get one, usually, but they have taxpayer financed trips (called "junkets") to entertain them. Plus they can vote themselves pay raises. Not all professionals have to work nine hour days in their office, add a couple of hours for required extra curricular activities, add a few more hours at home doing lesson prep and/or correcting papers AND have to put up with 120 of YOUR children all day, some of whom are too darn sick to be in school, some of whom do not have the common courtesy to treat adults with some respect, some of whom are overmedicated because that is easier than doing some valid parenting, and some of whom it is a real joy to have in class and whose parents can be quite proud. But just to make you happy, some school districts are going to year-round schedules--nine weeks of school followed by a two week break--or some similar arrangement. What that means is those teachers can not take summer classes to meet continuing licensing requirements, and instead have to load that work on top of the usual duties. It also means no summer job for the teacher so in fact, his/her annual income has been reduced.
So here is a homework assignment for you: Compare the teacher payroll for Armstrong School District to the payrolls of any five major league baseball teams and any five NFL teams, and then explain to me what makes some guy on a playing field so much more valuable than a teacher or cop or firefighter/paramedic, all of whom have far more influence on your child than any pitcher or running back.
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sinbad317
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Re: teachers benefits
« Reply #4 on: Mar 22nd, 2004, 11:28pm » |
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I believe that's a no brainer. there are about 800 men at any given time who are good enough to play at that level; and each time they play 15,000 - 35000 people go and watch them do it. Not to mention, of course, the countless thousands who watch on TV or listen on radio and who buy the products being advertised on said media.
Now I'm not bashing teachers, but your argument is lacking a bit don't you think?
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Jimmers
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Value vs Importance
« Reply #5 on: Mar 23rd, 2004, 12:48am » |
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I CERTAINLY don't doubt or deny that teachers deserve our utmost respect and that they do a service for youth that is very important. I would rank 90% of the teachers I had above ANY sports star in importance to how my life has developed. But I think Sinbad hit on the crux of the dilema, ECONOMIC RESOURCES.
One televised sports event probably creates more $$$ in a few hours than most school districts deal with in a fiscal year. All the revenues from TV, radio, salaries, tix, food, merch and advertising create a HUGE pool of funds to draw from. These sports create millions of dollars in an instant, thats why there is so much $$ to spread around and fight over.
With teachers, the value isn't tangible in $$$ figures. The rewards of having good teachers can't be realized in dollar terms during the short-term. It takes years or decades for the value added to our youth by teachers to mature and be realized. That is the catch 22 of ALL public service type positions, there is no REAL $$$ payback, the value only appears when the service ISN'T provided.
I relate the same situation to fire or police protection. Society as a whole isn't very capable of reaching into it's pocket and saying here is $$$ for todays safety. It is impossible to choose what days are critical and exactly how much $$$ is critical to public safety/service. So we have generalized, blanket systems in place. NYC had no idea that public service needs would be anymore important on Sept 11,2001 than they were on Sept 10.
With sports, you KNOW when the seasons are, you know when the games are, you know what players are most valuable to their teams, you know who's jersey sells better, you know how many commercial spots are available during the game, you know how many seats there are in the arena .. all this info and definable limited supply leads to $$$ VALUE and you can guage cost/benefit analysis.
So society is OK with paying $100 for a night at the ball game for the family, you pay yer $$ and you are entertained for the night. You know what ya paid for right away.
That same $100 turned over to a school district undergoes more scrutiny because there is no instant feedback on what that $100 bought. If there was a magic way to prove to people that Little Suzie's IQ went up 5 pts because Daddy paid his school tax, everything would be fine. Instead we are forced to LOOK for rewards, and during that search we see every waste/missed chance along the way.
If you pay $100 to go see your favorite team lose a game, at least ya got to be at the stadium, got to see a game, got to party in the parking lot, got ENTERTAINED for yer $$. If you pay $100 in school tax, and see a less than perfect outcome, you tend to be more defensive about what/where/how the money got used.
There is NO WAY I would say basketball stars are more IMPORTANT to society than teachers .. they are just economically WORTH more.
I never meant to belittle the teaching profession, I hope you all see or can relate to what I am saying here. It isn't a matter of importance and how critical anyone is to making society better as a whole .. it is just a matter of being able to assign and enforce an economic value.
How is THAT for a long, drawn out, wordy, rambling dissertation ??
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| « Last Edit: Mar 23rd, 2004, 10:56pm by Jimmers » |
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Just my 2 cents ..
Jimmers
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sweetleur
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Re: teachers benefits
« Reply #6 on: Mar 23rd, 2004, 07:17am » |
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I think sports figures and entertainers have much more of an influence on the kids than you think. Kids act and dress like them, they shun infliuence given by authority figures, namely parents and teachers. Kids want to find their own way, right or wrong as it may be.
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snackdaddy
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Re: teachers benefits
« Reply #7 on: Mar 23rd, 2004, 10:06pm » |
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Jimmers, the word is "dissertation." 
Sorry, I couldn't resist that.
So, Sinbad 317, if we are talking about value received for dollar paid, then I have every right to expect absolute perfection from the sports star making umpteen million dollars a year, correct? No dropped fly balls, every time at bat produces a hit, every pass thrown is a touchdown. And since these people have so much influence on our children, then I am within my rights to demand drug and tobacco free, extremely moral persons to set the example for my children. And some players meet that criteria (the moral part, at least), but very few. I will admit I stopped paying attention to pro sports a few years ago when the poor fellows in baseball went on strike to get more money, so there may be more good guys out there than I realize. But what kind of influence does a steroid laced batter have on my little leaguer? What kind of role model is Dennis Rodman? My comparison of teacher salaries to sports/entertainer salaries is not weak at all. What you are saying is the entertainment provided is more valuable than what your tax money buys, education-wise.
And Jimmers, you are correct about "no instant feedback..." on education. The very process of education requires a finite amount of time. Teachers attempt to notify parents where problems begin to show, and some parents are responsive, some, sadly, are not. So we test our kids with batteries of standardized tests that may or may not prove anything in our local situation, teachers have to teach to the test, ignoring some other valuable subject areas, but the politicians are happy if scores are met, if the child passes to the next grade the parents are happy, and the Big Guys in Washington DC are happy because we have not left any children behind. Even though they did not provide funds for those programs, we managed to implement them. And thank you to the local taxpayer, on behalf of your elected officials in DC, for the extra taxes you paid.
Which is, I think, the bottom line of this whole discussion: regardless of who is getting the paycheck--teacher, police officer, pot hole filler, town clerks, snow plow driver--the fact is most people today feel they have no control over the amount of taxes required of them or how it is spent.
So now, let me pose this question (and I may very well be singing to the choir here): How many of you 1) voted in the last election for school board members, and 2) have ever attended a school board meeting?
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Jimmers
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Double negative ..
« Reply #8 on: Mar 23rd, 2004, 10:54pm » |
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Ya got me busted on BOTH accounts .. I can pass as a SEMI-educated smart-ass .. but have no shot at being an educated voter.
I have no kids .. don't own any land .. don't plan on ever having either one. I don't follow many of the stories, policies or events related to the Armstrong School District, unless they come up here .. so I never feel qualified enough to cast a useful vote for schoolboard members.
All I can offer the School Board is my participation in debates/discussions here .. HOPEFULLY my comments make voters who DO have a stake in local education think about the choice they make.
And I adjusted my DISSERTATION accordingly .. lol .. thanks for the heads up .. MH is never here when I REALLY need him !!
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| « Last Edit: Mar 23rd, 2004, 10:58pm by Jimmers » |
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Just my 2 cents ..
Jimmers
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jenny
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Re: teachers benefits
« Reply #9 on: Mar 24th, 2004, 07:41am » |
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I have to just jump in with my 2 cents and say regardless of the reasons I think its a sin that sports figures make as much money as they do. Our society is quite bass-ackwards. Heck when I was a kid I remember my dad would take us kids (3 of us) to Pirates games just for something fun to do. Today, you'd have to take out a loan to take a family of 5 to the stadium, b/c along w/the outrageous ticket prices you'd have to get the $10 soda & $5 hotdogs - for everyone - and that adds up too fast for my blood. And I dont' even have kids.
Jenny
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sweetleur
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Re: teachers benefits
« Reply #10 on: Mar 24th, 2004, 08:18am » |
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I think I only had one choice in the last school board election and I haven't been to a meeting since the first consolidation ruckus. With Jim Solak seeming to maintain a one person voting edge, it doesn't seem many things change. When I had kids in school , I wanted to keep things the way they were, now that taxes are getting harder and harder to pay, I favor consolidation and not only for that reason either, Ford City and Kittanning are old schools with no room for expansion, I think kids and teachers would do better in a new facility and I am looking at it from an education stand point, not a sports minded one.
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jenny
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Re: teachers benefits
« Reply #11 on: Mar 24th, 2004, 08:22am » |
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 But you MUST look at it from a sports minded angle! Such blasphemy you speak! (just kidding, figured I'd better throw it in jokingly before someone says it honestly!) 
Jen
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snackdaddy
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Re: teachers benefits
« Reply #12 on: Mar 25th, 2004, 12:25am » |
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I picked up a bumber sticker at a gun show awhile back that says, "Politicians prefer their peasants unarmed." I am going to print a variation that says, "Politicians prefer their peasants uninformed." Since I don't live in Armstrong County anymore, I don't know who is what on the school board, but I can tell you this: Attendance at the meetings, attendance at the "special" meetings, speaking out at those meetings--all combine to make the pols pay attention to "We the People." Not having kids in the system is no excuse--and childless people have as big a stake in the schools as people with kids. The next generation will be in control of all of us, not just the parent parts. Politicians get comfortable being unresponsive because they know the percentage of voter turnout is traditionally low, so they don't really have to care. Start putting 50 or 60 people with opinions at the meetings and watch the attitude adjustments! And let me close with this: Ladies and Gentlemen, there is absolutely no--NO--excuse for not voting (with the exception of sudden onset of violent illness, injury or death) in every election, NO excuse for not knowing anything about the candidate, NO basis in fact for the claim of "my vote doesn't mean anything." What is the main difference between America and, say, Libya, Iran, most African nations and many European ones? FREE ELECTIONS PEOPLE! STOP SQUANDERING YOUR RIGHTS AND GET OUT THERE AND VOTE. PLEASE!!!!!!!!!
Thank you. I feel better. And I will feel even better if the voter turnout in Armstrong County tops 75% in November.
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Jimmers
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The SnackDaddy Voting Rally !!
« Reply #13 on: Mar 25th, 2004, 01:21am » |
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We could take over the Cadet parking lot for a day .. red, white and blue EVERYTHING .. maybe some bikini clad women washing cars (some speedo wearing hunks for the ladies as well !!) .. grill some hotdogs .. burgers .. chickens .. river rats.
I am SURE we could get some elected official (or those who WANT to be elected) types out for FREE FOOD and a meet/greet day.
I would pay $$$ to see Jim Scahill in a pair of Bermuda shorts !! Maybe even get a hula skirt on that big ole Cowboy Sam guy !!
What better way to promote the American way than in an American way ??
If THAT don't help get people to pay attention, nothing will. And if voter turn out DOES top 75% .. we can say it all started RIGHT HERE .. or a foot or so above right THERE .. back when Snack typed the challenge !!
Maybe we can get Carl involved with this idea .. he knows more of the local business/political types .. they might call the cops on me again !!
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Just my 2 cents ..
Jimmers
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snackdaddy
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Re: teachers benefits
« Reply #14 on: Mar 25th, 2004, 11:46pm » |
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Nice idea but Snackdaddy don't do Speedos no more, and the world is a better place for it. If you pulled 75% turnout, CNN, NBC and the Chicago mob bosses would be there trying to figure out how. GOOD LuCK. Vote early, vote often!!
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